The Art of Faux Pas #8 - Breanna O'Mara

Breanna O’Mara is a Dance Artist from Detroit (US) and is now based in Vienna. She has worked with Liquid Loft, Staatstheater Kassel, Ballett Baselm, and has danced and toured the wolrd with Tanztheater Wuppertal and Dimitris Papaioannou. She is currently the Contemporary Dance Rehearsal Director at the Paris Opera. 

Breanna shines bright with passion, enthusiasm, humility and empathy. Distance too.. which I love! 

Together we talked about being stuck in a curtain for 10 minutes, empathy and other forms of intelligence, the world made of tiny pools, not being seen, and dance as a way to express oneself. 

-> Quick note about this episode; it was recorded when I was abroad in a very echoey hotel room / apologise for that! 

Transcript

Léa: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Art of Faux Pas. Here, we celebrate the artistic fuck ups, the feelings of failure, the blackouts, the falls, the unfollowed rules, the invaluable learning experiences within the creative process. All this With kindness, amusement, and respect. 

Today we're chatting with Breanna O’Mara. Breanna is a dance artist from Detroit and is now based in Vienna. She has worked with Liquid Loft, Staatstheater Kassel, Ballett Basel, and has danced and toured the world with Tanztheater Wuppertal and Dimitris Papaioannou. Breanna is currently the Contemporary Dance Rehearsal Director at the Paris Opera.

Breanna shines bright with passion, enthusiasm, humility, and empathy. Distance, too.. which I love! Together, we talked about being stuck in a curtain for 10 minutes, empathy, and other forms of intelligence, the world made of tiny pools, not being seen, and dance as a way to express oneself. 

I hope you'll enjoy this chat as much as I did!

A quick note about this episode. It was recorded when I was abroad in a very echo-y hotel room. So I apologize for that, but you won't hear much of me, so it should be fine!! Enjoy! 

Léa: Hi Breanna. Thank you so much for joining me today!

Breanna: Um, it's a pleasure. 

Léa: Let's start with an introduction. If you could share with us your name, your age and what you do.

Breanna: My name is Breanna O'Mara. I am, I'm Breanna Grace O'Mara, technically. Um, I'm 34 years [00:02:00] old until March and I'm a performer, dancer. Also recently I've started, um, working as a rehearsal director. And even I'm, I'm embarking upon curation for the first time this summer. Um, and as well, creator, although I have to say that's definitely not the main thing I do at the moment unless it's in a creative process of somebody else.

Léa: Do you recall what's your first memory of dance? 

Breanna: Yeah, you know, well, funny, I recently heard a song that I was like, Oh my gosh, I had this CD and I loved dancing to it in the living room. So I have this memory of dancing because I grew up in the same house until I was 18 years old. My parents still live in that house and I do have memories of dancing next to the sound system in the [00:03:00] living room. Um, it's not a very big house, and on the carpeting there, there’s like a landing from the stairs and some carpeting and dancing around. But my first memory where I felt dance was really, um, something a bit more. That I connected to as a form of expression was when I was around the age of 12 and my aunt had passed away rather suddenly and I didn't really understand it. And I remember I actually was taking dance lessons at the time, but very recreationally, and I was picked up from class and my mom told me that my aunt had passed away and I was really sad. And I went upstairs to where it used to be my brothers room and there was another boom box and I danced with the lights off. And I really, this I remember very strongly, like just dancing emotion and sweating and connecting to my body in this [00:04:00] time of something I didn't understand. And at the same time, knowing it's a huge topic, so very expressionistic, I would say from the expressionistic side. 

Léa: It’s so powerful as well. Um, Did you know from an early age that dance could be a career, that you could become a dancer?

Breanna: Somehow, yes, although in the United States, I don't think I had like, and in Detroit, I didn't have a clear picture of what it was, but I really looked up to the people who were teaching me how to dance. So somehow I understood there's some possibility, um, around the age of 13, 14, like when I had this experience of dance being something that I connected to on a deeper level, I started to take many classes and quite a few of my teachers at that time were actually university students, and they were doing their own [00:05:00] performances and I was understanding that there's something that they were working towards. So I also, it, I think it gave me permission or it was okay to keep working towards it as well. Although I didn't know exactly what it would look like at that age. 

Léa: And when did you embark on, um, on a professional training then? What, what age were you? 
Breanna: I think around the age of fourteen, I did the American Ballet Theater Summer Program because they have a program in many cities and one was Detroit at the time. Um, so I understood that ballet was a possible route. Um, and at the time I think I, I didn't really think about it, but I was doing these programs as if maybe it would be an option for me. I don't think so anymore. Um, this program in the summer [00:06:00] in a way, it was like this very intense training and I saw other children in a way. I mean, they went up until the age of 18, but I was on the young end of the spectrum in this group. And I saw from across the country, they were coming to Detroit and I saw different levels and also, um, some who were in kind of like, uh, performing arts program already. And I was in public school. So I started to understand this, like, amount of training needed.

And I, I mean, professional training, I just continued to go to a dance studio. So I stayed in public school and I went to my local dance studio, but I was there every day after school until like at least nine o'clock at night. Um, and then when I, I went to Juilliard, so I feel like that's the first probably what you would count as truly professional training.
Um, but I, I was [00:07:00] very lucky with the, at least the artistic training that I received at this, the studio in Detroit, and I'm still very thankful for my teacher, Mary Lou Parker, who is a, yeah, still a part of my life and like a, a family member, definitely. 
Léa: Is this the studio you teach when you go back to Detroit?
Breanna: Yes! And even I, I did some zoom classes and things like that. I mean, during the pandemic, yeah. 

Léa: And then how long was the, um, how long was your training at Juilliard? And then what happens, what was the bridge for you to sort of like start working in the professional world? 

Breanna: Mm. Juilliard is a four year program, and I did all four years, graduated, I had one small job afterwards, uh, like right after graduating that next month in a kind of a summer festival [00:08:00] choreographed by a friend, and there I was, I did a lot of work. It was important for me and it was something I learned at Juilliard and I connected to a lot of other young artists who were engaged in how to bring our practice to the world. home in a way and kind of to the broader public, not just, I think, especially coming from a background of like growing up in a more of a downtrodden American city and being in the public school system and going to a normal dance studio, not being in some like higher art education. Um, it was important for me to share that information I was receiving. with people from home or other people. So I started a program while I was in Juilliard, where I brought artists from New York with me in the summer's home. And we taught homeless youth and [00:09:00] gave free performances around the city. And from my kind of work doing this, Uh, these different projects, I was given an award when I graduated, it was a small amount of money, but I thought I had this deep sense that I had just spent four years.

I did all of this training and I still was missing a huge amount of information. So I decided to go to the part summer program. I used it. My aunt was living outside of Brussels at the time. I stayed with her and I went for two weeks to take training from Anton Lackey and like things that I did not experience at all at Juilliard: Floorwork, just, you know, release technique, anything that's not like a bright American modern dance. Um, And then I came back to New York and I actually thought I, there was a job lined up with all the dates and [00:10:00] pay and everything. And it fell through. And I was living in New York, very scared without, you know, having taken an apartment with a friend expecting this job and suddenly not having it, and I was just kind of trying to find my way, like walking into gyms and being like, are you hiring and getting applications? And because it was, it wasn't so easy for me, I was doing as many auditions as possible, but it wasn't really fitting into anything or finding something that clicked. 

Um, and I was just doing a workshop from Johannes Wieland at PeriDance. And on the last day, I almost didn't go. I was sleeping at my boyfriend's, sorry mom, um, and I woke up and I was like, no, I'll go and I walked there and, um, thank God I went because he asked me actually the last day if I would want to join for this production [00:11:00] Orpheus. Which is where you and I met Léa! um, because somebody couldn't come and I, he said, it starts in three weeks and you know, and I even walked with him. He was having a rehearsal somewhere and he said, we can talk about it. And I went and watched rehearsal and I said, yeah, I'll do it. And I subletted my apartment. It was also Christmas time. So I was going home for a week and then, but I just, I wanted to try and that kind of led me into, I was an apprentice for that project that led me into a guest contract and then a full time and then that I was there and I auditioned and I continued. Yeah. But that kind of, I didn't know I would stay in Europe and then in Germany for so long, but it led me on that path. 

Léa: How long have you been here now? 10 years? More? 12 years? 

Breanna: Well, that project started in 2012, January, 2012. It was a little bit on and off. [00:12:00] I don't know if you remember that rehearsal, like we rehearsed for one month and then I went back.

I traveled around Europe for a month, went home for a month, came back for two months. So, I kind of, usually on all of my visa applications, I think they count me as being since 2013. Right. As a resident of Europe. Um, but yeah, now it's 2024. So, I'm waiting for that time when I've spent more time in Europe than in the States. Yeah. That will be interesting.. 

Léa: Thank you. And then after, after Kassel, you went to Wuppertal, right? And yeah. How long did you work in Wuppertal for Pina Bausch? 

Breanna: Six years. 

Léa: Six years you stayed there. Yeah. And then you left. And when you left the company, did you go back to the freelance world? 

Breanna: Yes. I mean, I was deciding to leave the company and, um, Dimitris Papaioannou had come to Wuppertal and made the first full length piece on the [00:13:00] company, um, a new creation.
And I was in that piece and we get along well and we were still touring his piece. And I had told him that I was, you know, uh, planning on leaving and, but I was going to leave at the end of the next season. And we were actually in Paris. It was the second to last tour of the season, we were going from Paris to Vienna, and on stage at the dress rehearsal, we always hug. It's a ritual. Everybody hugs before. And I wanted to ask him a question about a note, and I was like, ‘Oh, I have a question for you.’ And he said, Me too. ‘Will you be in my new creation?’ And I was like, We're about to do an open dress rehearsal for like 900 people. Can we talk about this later? But I was kind of shocked and then I thought about it and it was a moment when I was saying yes to many things. Um, I was getting married within like the month, and big things were [00:14:00] changing also in our private lives, um, at home between my partner and I. And I was like, okay, I'm going to try. And I asked the director at the time of Wuppertal, if it would be a possibility because the production started in January and she did let me leave earlier.

So I left halfway through the season. And so I was a freelancer, but in a way it was quite a full time job that I took on right away. Although Dimitris is technically not like a full time company, it was rather full on. It was interrupted by the pandemic. Once we could tour, we were touring a lot. And I would say since like January, 2023, I've been more in the free, like in the freelance world with the possibility of taking on more things at once. Although I find myself. They'll, no, I think, no, I've taken on many, many things at once, actually, lately. Let me [00:15:00] say that. 

Léa: Are you able to articulate today why dance?

Breanna: Now what I realized, because I think what freaked me out as a freelancer, I always like, I, I wanted to try out this lifestyle and I don't know if it was just the image I had of it, but it felt like there's so much possibility and freedom and something that I think I always wanted to try out because in a way I had been in so many structures my entire life.

You go from school into the next school into a company, like there's some kind of frame or institution you're inside of. And once I started to freelance, so more recently I, I had this big pressure of I have to do all of the kind of administrative stuff really well. And I was so almost nervous about that, that I found myself spending so much time on the computer, like doing the email side and doing the planning side and then getting in and like not having the full focus on the body.

And it's [00:16:00] really disturbing for the nervous system. It's like not at all what I wanted. And I realized that maybe a month ago that like, wait a second, no, I need to prioritize the body. And the creation side and however, you know, in whatever ways I can make that possible. And it's made like now when I enter a dance studio, I'm so very happy to be there with a group of people.

And I think dance giving myself that, maybe that push to kind of like go in the opposite direction and then come back to it. I see so much the, I, I almost can't imagine to, to do something else. Maybe it could be more theater or something, but to be in a, the way people have to deal with so many complex human interactions, uh, conflict, like this immediate solving. And it's in a way so open and on the surface, which can be, [00:17:00] you can be very vulnerable, but you also have to be very empathetic. I think that was, that's maybe the biggest thing for me, the amount of empathy I've learned through dance also to myself.

Like to be easy with my body when it's, when I want to push it and to listen. Um, I think it's like a whole another form of intelligence that I wish we would celebrate more. 

Léa: Yeah. It is. And you don't have to only like say one, you can like have many more if you want to: what's your best memory on stage as a dancer? I'm sure you have many.

Breanna: I'm just thinking of things that I can still sense and feel in my body. Um, and maybe it's because this piece came up recently in conversation, but the first piece that Dimitris made with us in Wuppertal, [00:18:00] um, I have a moment where I, I'm kind of hidden up. There's a, there's a set of. It's actually like foam mattresses, they’re black, but it creates a mountain and, and in a way they're, they're stacked so that there's tiny steps. So there's like a, you kind of have tiny ledges and I'm hidden. I climb up it at one point and I'm hidden by other people and I'm actually undressed. And then I slide down it naked upside down with my head towards the floor. And I have to, it's actually such, a incredible feeling because this atmosphere has gotten very quiet and my colleague Scott Jennings is being uncovered. He's like in a paper, he's kind of like a paper mummy and they're opening him up and I'm sliding down this mountain very slowly and with the lights, you're actually, it feels very intimate. It doesn't feel like [00:19:00] you're on the stage being presented. Um, it was not my first time being a nude, but it was the first time being able to enjoy. I also had to use so much awareness of pressure in different body parts to not quickly slide down. I needed to slide down slowly. So how to gauge like where I can hold on to with my calf and let my shoulder move.

And kind of have this sensual reveal that's dreamlike and also being upside down so I don't see everything really in the same way is a special thing that, um, that like lasts very strong in my mind. 

I also have the , there’s two moments, I think, with Tanztheater Wuppertal. One is performing Café Muller for the first time, which was also my first run through with everything, was in front of an audience, and it was in New York, where I studied, where I saw so many shows. So, [00:20:00] and that was, that was such a wild experience because your eyes are also closed the whole time, and it was my first time doing it, and I'm there, but it's, you're so aware of the whole space because you have your senses turned on and you listen to everything, and at the same time you're alone in your self.

And then going into the Rite of Spring, which is just an amazing piece to dance, um, and also 1980 by Pina Bausch, I think is my favorite piece of all time. And it's amazing to watch, and it's amazing to perform. You're on grass, and I had the luck of being kind of one of the only roles that has dance movement. Where, and I dance with a sprinkler and it's such a beautiful, lovely, it happens in the second act. You've already been on stage for like two hours and it's really amazing to step on like, to step on stage, but you're on grass. It's yeah, the whole piece is.[00:21:00] It's really beautiful how time passes and you become one with the audience.

I also feel that as a viewer of that piece, it is a beautiful piece. It's true. Oh, but what I want to say about those moments is I think why they're the best moments is that I felt fully present. There was somehow like a need that I wasn't aware of the audience watching me. And that that's really a nice like afterwards to be like, Oh, right.

Léa: What's your worst memory on stage as a dancer?

Breanna: Definitely, definitely performing Transverse Orientation with a blocked back. I blocked my back on stage towards the beginning of the piece and continued to do the piece. Like having to do also some intense stuff. Arches, like, and like, [00:22:00] you know, I have one with a partner where we create this kind of weird animal. We call it the Sphinx, but my legs are wrapped around his shoulders. And when we got into the position, I whimpered like a wounded animal. He didn't know what was happening because nobody had time to know. And I just had tears streaming down my face, but I kept doing it. Um, Actually, even, even the production, they didn't know until I didn't come out for one group scene where we had to carry a lot of things.

I think that must be the worst. I mean, I've been in things that I don't love being in, but that felt terrible. That felt like, you know, that's in this moment when you're like, why am I doing this? And I remember somebody after somebody who was a presenter said to me, you're a hero. And I was really thinking, no, I'm not, this is not, we should not be.

Léa: Like Glamorizing glamor. 

Breanna: Yeah. No. And applauding this that I still like, fought [00:23:00] through and kept, I, afterwards I was, I was almost angry at myself also because I had to, I did the show the next day and yeah. Was not better really. 

Léa: Um, but were you able to rest after that, after the second show? Were you able to take it easy?

Breanna: Yeah, but it took a long time to heal and then even we did shows again, but it wasn't fully, uh, healed and it's like two months later, I think it still was not fully. And I, I hurt it lifting a big pot of soup on Christmas in heels because my mother in law made it in this old Austrian cast iron pot. And I, yeah, so it was, I mean, okay, I went through it.
I did all of those shows, but I think that's something I feels like not a great experience and something I would try to remind myself that we have to also soften in our expectations of ourselves, maybe me, [00:24:00] especially. Yeah. 

Léa: So, a faux pas is a socially embarrassing action or mistake. What would be your definition of failure and has it changed over time?

Breanna: Hmm, definitely changed over time. I used to have a lot more fear of not being correct, and now I almost feel like it's the opposite. Like, I, are we talking about failure in terms of performing? Just failure. Yeah, that's hard because I think I've started to really approach things, maybe life in general as, as experiences.

So it's hard to say that something has ever really, um, is a failure because in a way it's just how it's happened. Um, this might also be really coming from the privileged aspect of not having experienced huge failure. Like I haven't tried to build, um, my [00:25:00] own company and it's, or my own business and it's fallen through and I, you know, I'm in financial ruin or something, but I do think there's something about me personally. I think I am most disappointed with myself if I do not listen to my own instinct. And if I don't speak up when I feel something is not just, or is going in a direction that whether it, whether I feel it's like harmful to me or to others, if I'm not kind of, um, active in speaking to it.

Léa: And what about success? What, what, what would your definition of success be? And has it changed over time? 

Breanna: That's something I think I, I ask myself a lot because, um, without sounding or maybe at risk of sounding bougie, um, I think on [00:26:00] paper success, like, I also can look at my career and I can see that there's, there are like a lot of successes and it looks so shiny and like, like this word glamorous you mentioned, but the question is really like, I think I'm experiencing a lot in the last year or so, what do I really want and is that fulfilling?

And what's interesting is how recently I do not have the same need to be on stage. Um, I think I always was on stage or I'm always performing anyways in a way to challenge myself. And what's interesting is not needing to also be seen by others in order to do that anymore. So for me, success has become a very personal thing if I've, almost of like a, if I'm discovering something about myself, if I'm able to recognize a habit or a way of being that I find is not healthy and, and work on [00:27:00] it. And when I do work on it, when I have approached something in a different way than I used to, and it feels better, that's like the biggest success I've had. Yeah. It's different than, yeah, when I was 18 or when I was at Juilliard, I mean, of course I had these dreams of being somewhere and performing and wanting to experience this work and thinking I need that in order to find things in myself. And then realizing like, sure, you, I experienced so much, but it's not the only way. And it's not the most important thing. 

Léa: Yeah. Creatively, any massive fuck up? Say something you made, a project you're a part of, a task you responded to, a huge blank on stage, something that really went wrong. 

Breanna: Um, I mean, the first time I performed at Tanztheater Wuppertal, uh, I didn't have a very big part. I was like, it's like [00:28:00] a, it's a small part that's only in the group sections of Sweet Mambo. And in the, right before the intermission, like many Pina Bausch pieces, there's like everybody's on stage and, and we have, we're doing toasts to each other and to the audience. And then we all kind of leave and somebody says intermission. And I was leaving and you have to keep contact with the audience as you're leaving out of the wings. And it was the first time I've been performing on this stage. And I exited actually into the curtain. Um, But then I was too nervous to leave again because everybody else was already off the stage that I just waited. 

Léa: In the curtain? 

Breeana: Yeah. Until because I, and I was really like, I didn't know what to do. I was just there. Like there was no way to actually get off the stage without going back onto the stage. And I was too worried that people would see me. So I just waited until I heard [00:29:00] there was silence. And I was in there for like 10 minutes at least. 

Léa: Did people notice you were there or were you hidden? 

Breanna: I mean, for me, that was a pretty big. I mean, yeah, it's a funny one. I guess nobody saw it, but I do remember like, oh my god, I like, and the panic of being stuck suddenly in like a tiny room in a dress and heels.

Léa: What do you think is the space for failure in the creative process? 

Breanna: Oh, I think there should definitely be that space. I think the best creative processes are if it's like a safe space where everything's allowed and you can try it. You can try an idea and it can go in any direction. If there's not space for that, I don't know how we can ever try to be innovative at all.

Léa: And do you think any creative [00:30:00] product is a success. So the act, so the act itself of creating independent of the results is a success? 

Breanna: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I had this, um, kind of wild job with Dimitris Papaiouanou in the summer for Louis Vuitton high jewelry.

Léa: Ah! Yes, I think I remember seeing some images (on social media). 

Breanna: Yeah, it was, I mean, it's always a pleasure to work with this team, but, um, Dimitris was on tour when we were first starting. And I was his creative assistant, uh, sorry, not creative assistant, choreographic assistant and rehearsal director, as well as performing in it. But I had to cast like 27 men, I think. And then I had to work with them in the beginning and we worked for a month actually to create the show. And I think I'm most proud of simply the environment we [00:31:00] had in those rehearsals.
This group of people, some of them maybe knew each other, others did not, from different backgrounds, model, actors, dancers, circus, like, and in a way we had to, we trained them to walk backwards with a certain quality and everything, but it was such a lovely atmosphere actually and people were dedicated to this thing that in the end was like, I think from our perspective, it doesn't feel great - to do these commercial things where, on one side, it supports people financially, the whole team was reimbursed very well, or reimbursed, uh, paid very well. Um, but the actual, well, I think we, we did give a good product. How it, how that felt was not comparable to the actual process. Yeah. Like the doing, I think the actual doing it was 30 or 40 minutes, and that felt [00:32:00] less great or important, especially with the people watching with their cell phones, than, than the actual success of how we all worked together and found concentration and also levity within it. And yeah, so I think, I mean my, I love being in a studio. I actually often now I'm better, but I used to be so sad to finally have to premiere something. I love the process. Oh yeah. Yeah. I, I used to sometimes feel like, no, I don't want to share it, it’s our thing, like what we have here. And I could keep going, especially when it's a new creation. It's like, yes, let's keep playing and coming up with ideas and possibilities. Yes. And that's why you need a premiere because it could be maddening. You could spend like your whole life on one, on one. 

Léa: Um, I think it's one of my favorite part now. It's about feedback. [00:33:00] Um, what's What's the worst feedback someone's ever said to you? It could be about one of your performance, or you know, one of your work, or something just really horrible someone said. And what did they do to you? 

Breanna: Okay, well now I think of two, because I have an old one, and I have a very recent one.
The old one is, I had this, I was a horrific choir teacher when I was deciding to start to dance. I had auditioned for this show choir in my, uh, middle school because friends were doing it and told me I should, and they, they took me. I was like, okay, so I'm in, I think it was even my, well, maybe my second year of middle school. So I was probably, yeah, 13, I think. And it rehearsed at 6:45 in the mornings on Fridays and I decided at the same time, I decided to [00:34:00] start training more as a dancer, like to take more and more classes and also my teacher at my dance studio, who I love very deeply made this kind of deal where if we for the more serious students, if we took five basic technique classes, we could take any classes we wanted.
Um, so I was taking like 13 classes and I was at the studio until 9:30 at night or something the night before. And I decided actually, when I look at it, what a very mature 13 year old to be like ‘this, I can't do it’. I can't go to the dance studio that late and then go at 6:45 in the morning to the school to sing.

So I went to the choir teacher and I told her I'm not going to do show choir. And I explained to her also why because I'm at the dance studio and she told me you'll never be a dancer. Do you think you'll be? And I remember also like thinking, you're a terrible teacher. [00:35:00] Like realizing this is really not how you should speak to a young person.

But of course it was hurtful. It was like shocking. Um, but I'm also stubborn enough to just be like, I don't, I, yeah, I'm not gonna, I don't believe you and I don't like you. I think in my, especially that age, I had a lot more anger. Um, funnily enough, when I got into Juilliard, the local newspaper did an article on me and, um, like some weeks later, there was a yoga studio that opened up, the first yoga studio in the neighbourhood. I went to take a class. There were two people in the class, me and this choir teacher.
And yeah, at the end of the class, she said to me, I saw you're going to Juilliard and I told her yes for dance. So that was my, that was really like some kind of alignment happening where [00:36:00] the world is like, ignore these kind of things, people. But also, I mean, people like that should not be educating children.

Some bitterness, yeah. Um, and now, of course, I can see that. But I, I mean, I'm, I guess I also had a support system where, like, You know, I'm sure I probably cried to my mom or something and she told me to ignore her and do what I want. 
Um, but recently in a new production that I'm performing in, this person came to watch and without me asking for any kind of feedback, they were watching a rehearsal, came up to me, this is a person that I have performed with on stage, although they are not a dancer. Um. And told me that I shouldn't be a cliche of a woman. And I was.. 
Léa: what does that even mean?!! 
Breanna: ..Yeah, it was [00:37:00] also, it was for many reasons. I felt completely uncalled for. Well, this person also because we did a voice training with them in the morning, like, and it was after we had just opened ourselves up doing a voice training to warm up, took me to the side and told me this, which I felt was very, um, in a way, like, well, manipulative and weird. And almost like when we put everybody's in this like vulnerable open space, and then you just said this to me. Also, I mean, I felt like ‘how dare you tell me what it is to be a woman.’ Um, yeah, it, um, but at first I was hurt. I was upset also because I do sometimes struggle with this idea of because of the way I physically look constantly being a certain archetype and use in that way at the same time. I know I have this [00:38:00] talent for that and it is how I look, um, but then I got, I was actually also happy that I, I also switched it and was like, no, I'm not going to listen to you. You don't get to tell me what your definition of my womanhood is. And also this projection onto me of what you think. is right or wrong.
Um, I, yeah, found it very unacceptable. 

Léa: Did you answer them or did you just ignore it? 

Breanna: I, in the end, we didn't get to meet because they had left already. But by the time, like my mind went there, I was like, wait a second, this is not okay. Um, but at least I had, I think I could have, it could have affected me much more for much longer. I was, you know, able to kind of recognize that I, this kind of feedback. Also, how is that useful? 

Léa: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What do you do with that? But what's the [00:39:00] best feedback you've ever received? This one we usually never really recall. 
Breanna: Yeah. I think some of the best feedback I, or that I, okay, well, I have one, but this is like, just because it's, it was Baryshnikov.
And he saw me perform Café Muller and Rite of Spring. I think it was my first performance. And actually, nobody from the, the rehearsal directors had said anything to me about my performance after. And so I was feeling like, okay. Nobody said anything to me. I just did Café Muller for the first time and he came backstage to congratulate all of us and he said to me in my ear, you're very beautiful doing Pina’s work.
And I was like, okay, I don't need to hear anything from anybody else. It's fine. Yeah. That was great, but then on like another [00:40:00] level, I, I, um, there was one person when I performed Transverse Orientation from Dimitris in London, who told me, how much they appreciated, so the amount of humour I had in my role.
And I was really, I was happy that, um, people saw that, uh, because that was also for me, a lot of fun to be able to, you know, to, to also be this kind of archetype and use these things, but at the same time, play with it and that they saw it and understood that. And when I have comments that are somehow about, like, me, being, when the people feel they see me being me, I, I always appreciate those kinds of things, comments. Also, especially if I feel like, Oh, that was a nice open performance. And if somebody felt that it was honest, that's nice when it lines up. Yeah. Yeah. [00:41:00] 

Léa: A most inspiring quote or advice you keep close to your heart, and that might be helpful for you to keep going? 

Breanna: It’s hard. I feel like I'm the kind of person who is constantly changing thoughts and like, um, opinions or like, yeah, but I think for me, it is the, to listen to myself, like when I remind myself to actually whatever, if there's a feeling, a gut feeling coming up, that is usually has proven to me to be the, the way that feels best and.
When I feel, um, disoriented, like I'm floating, it's a very clear sign, whatever it is, either that I need a break or that I'm in a situation or a place [00:42:00] that's not right for me. Um, and I kind of just try to follow that, those, either those guides or those warning signals. Um, and. I guess more and more also just that it's, it's going to be okay.
Like other, it kind of, not to say it doesn't matter, but also like, it doesn't matter. So I'm quite good at being able to laugh at myself. I'm happy if I can. Um, and yeah, that's. That's kind of always, I think that's at the moment for me, the biggest thing is as well, like it'll be all right, I'll get through it all.

Léa: would you say this is one of your biggest learning experiences as an artist? That, that it's okay that, yeah, to have learned that, to have learned to laugh at yourself and [00:43:00] to, you know, trust that it will be okay. 

Breanna: Yeah, I mean, as an artist, I think I, well, I definitely put a lot more pressure on myself in the past. I think also because of the kind of roles I was taking on in the places I found myself. I mean, especially in Wuppertal, I felt, for example, I took this pressure, I embody, or maybe not embody, but I, internalized a feeling that it had to live up to a certain level. And if it didn't, it was my fault maybe, or like I had this pressure and yeah, I think a big lesson also just the practice of being on stage so much is that like, I, it's okay. I can be me. And that will be, you know, if I, if I can connect into being present and to, [00:44:00] yeah, to committing myself there. Then it's okay. So yeah, this is like relaxing and that like, I'm going to go through. I'm deciding now to go to put myself here for the next whatever, two hours, however long the pieces and be present now in this moment.
And that's a much easier way to approach it as opposed to like, trying to do it correctly. 

Léa: Yeah, nice. Shall we move on to the quick fire questions? Oh, okay. I think you've answered a few already, but So you know, it's like I'm going to say red, blue, or green, and then quickly you'll have to answer 

Breanna: Okay. Right.

Léa: Okay. You ready? 

Breanna: Yeah. No. 

Léa: Process, product, or ideas. 

Breanna: Process. 

Léa: Instinct, intuition, or checked facts. 

Breanna: Ooh. Uh, [00:45:00] intuition. 

Léa: Reflection, or impulsion. 

Breanna: Impulses, maybe. Oh. Mm. Oh, God, that's so hard. It's like, right now, I don't 
know. I'm going to say impulses because I probably need more of it. 

Léa: Success or failure? 

Breanna: Okay, failure.

Léa: Stage or site specific? 

Breanna: Oh, stage. 

Léa: Art, useless or useful? 

Breanna: It's useless. 

Léa: What did you say? 

Breanna: I said it's useless. No, it's useful. Today it's useful. I'm just trying to be 
controversial. 

Léa: Pilates, yoga, or ballet? Okay. Oh, ballet. When creating, music on or off? 

Breanna: Oh. On. [00:46:00] 

Léa: If you weren't an artist, what job would you do? Watch artists?

Breanna: Can I watch, can I be a professional performance watcher? 

Léa: Step on the right or step on the left? 

Breanna: Right. 

Léa: The right step or a mistake? 

Breanna: The right step.

Léa: Nice. Anything you want to add?

Breanna: Um No, I mean, I think, I think there was this question about younger, like 
what you would say the younger people, younger maybe artists.
And I realized, um, because I don't know how much it happens now. I mean, not like I'm so much older, but I do have colleagues who are, I have some colleagues who are 21 right now and I'm 34 going on 35. So there's already some years between, um, And I just think like everything is so saturated that it's really worthwhile to find things that you're really [00:47:00] interested in.
Like I was reflecting recently, I was thinking about my time at Kassel, in Kassel, how much I used to watch films at that time, but until like two, three in the morning, sometimes I was really tired the next day, but I was just so interested in like weird films and figuring that out and how much that also feeds creativity, but in a way also maybe taste.

And I think it's worthwhile to spend time on things that are, are your taste that you want to do. Maybe that's just something I need to tell myself. Lately, especially as a freelancer, you enter this like huge pool of everything. And also it's amazing to see how much all the tiny pools, um, they feel so important when you're in them. And once you leave them, you realize like for the rest of the world, this tiny pool is a tiny pool. Even if that tiny pool is like al when you're in it, [00:48:00] it feels like it is the universe. And when you leave it, you recognize it's a very specific niche. Like it's a, it's a very specific genre with lots of people that love it. And I'm one of them that are moved by it, but also if you don't live in it, there’s a whole other world of many more other tiny pools. So, yeah..

Léa: I love that. Nice. I love this image of the world full of tiny pools as an ending image. Thank you, Bree. I think we're going to say like a fake goodbye now and then we can catch up. Thank you so much, Bree, for your time and your generosity and for all this good thought. It's, it's, it's really amazing to have shared all this with you. 

Breanna: Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for talking with me. Thanks for listening. 

Léa: Of course!! [00:49:00] 

Breanna: Bye! 

Léa: Bye!