The Art of Faux Pas #4 - Laura Patay

Laura Patay is a French dancer. She’s worked for several years with Candoco Dance Company where she performed works by Trisha Brown and Yasmeen Godder and amongst others. 

Laura is phenomenal, fierce, fearless and quite frankly the incarnation of resilience.

Together we talked about different bodies, pleasure, touring the world, accelerated solo, motherhood and postpartum bodies... … I hope you’ll enjoy it as much as I did! 

Transcript

The Art of Faux Pas #4 - Laura Patay

Léa: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Hello, Laura. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really, really happy to be with you. let's start with an introduction. Just share with us your name, your age, and what you do. 

Laura: So, my name is Laura Patay, I'm 34 now, and I think that's it. 

Léa: What do you do? 

Laura: , yes. What do I do? Actually, at the moment, I'm a dance teacher, but I'm also a performer, and I'm also choreographing some stuff for my students.So, I'm not considering myself as a choreographer, but I'm choreographing. Great. Nice. [00:02:00] 
Léa: what is, if you remember it, your first memory of dance? 

Laura: My first memory is a dance show. And actually it's quite funny because it's a ballet show, the Nutcracker. I think that I was about four years old and, that has been, I think, a dream becoming true. And from that day, I wanted to dance. So that's my best first memory of dance. 

Léa: How old were you? 

Laura: Four years old. 

Léa: Wow. And did you know from an early age that you could make a career in dance? 

Laura: No. No, not at all. I wanted to dance . 

Léa: And when did you find out that it could actually become your job? 

Laura: , I think around 20 years old. [00:03:00] Not before. So I've been studying dance. I wanted to dance every day and progress in dance. But I think I asked myself around 20 years old. Or actually, maybe I want to be a dancer or maybe I want to teach dance. So my training, I started to train in dance when I was 8 years old. I studied at the Conservatoire of Lyon until 18. First, graduation, and then I kept going with differentprofessional dance school. One is called Epse Dansee in Montpellier, and the other one, La Manufacture in Aurillac, in dance as well. And, I've been studying [00:04:00] both programs. So there is a dance program to become more of a performer.
And there was a program is, a teaching program about two, three years, studying. So I was studying both, in parallel, like, yeah, becoming a performer, having the keys to become a performer and also a dance teacher. 

Léa: And once you graduated, did you start auditioning for people and who did you start working with?

Laura: No, I didn't audition actually straight away. The last year of my study, I have been lucky to meet choreographers. So they were invited to like for a month of work with a student and make a short piece. And the first contact I [00:05:00] had in the professional, professional world was, was, with, with the school. So we had this little piece to make and the choreographer came to me and say, ‘Oh, actually, I would like to make something else with you. Would you like to join?’ And that that has been my first contact. And then from one from one contact, I think you go to another one and people start to recommend you. So I did not audition for the two or three first years in the professional dance world. And it's later I auditioned when I wanted to work, for Candoco. So in another country, they are based in the UK. And, and yeah, it was, I was older. I think I was 23 when I auditioned for Candoco. That was my first audition and last audition, actually, that's perfect.
It's actually the [00:06:00] only one I wanted. 

Léa: That’s amazing. 

Laura: Yeah, that's amazing. 

Léa: Talk about success! Are you able to articulate today why you chose dance? 

Laura: It's funny because I asked myself this question often. I don't know if I choose dance or if, dance chose me. I think I've been dancing my whole life, you know, even when I was a baby. And, and I always dance. I loved music and the relationship I had with, with music was quite, intense and, and unique so it's been, it's been natural, dancing and, and from, from now on. Sorry, my voice is a bit, yeah, shit at the moment. But, yeah, [00:07:00] I don't know if I chose dance, seriously, I think dance chose me somehow and, and now because I'm dancing every day, I know I don't have the choice to, to feel, to feel good in my life and to feel happy and yeah, I think I just have to dance.
The moment I stop dancing, I am, I'm sad and I'm worried and I'm myself actually. 

Léa: Yeah. So it's very much part of your identity. 

Laura: Yeah, it's part of my identity and, I think also because, I have this, this disability, you know, my left arm is a, is a bit shorter, and I'm born like that. That's also part of my identity and both things are part of my [00:08:00] identity. My disability became that thing that, you know, people are speaking about me, Oh, you know, the dancer with the shorter arm. And, and so, so, yeah, my body is, has become something, at dancing, you know? But yeah, dance is definitely part of my identity. For sure.

Léa: You mentioned that you worked as a dancer a lot for many years. What would you say is your best memory on stage as a dancer? On stage or in the rehearsal, I guess. 

Laura: I think I have many, many, many great memories. I think the strongest memory was when I was performing for Candoco and, and sometimes just, being in, in some part of the world. And, and I remember the tabs opening and, and you're like, ‘Whoa’ [00:09:00] I'm, I'm performing in front of 5000 people in Mexico City, it's crazy. I don't think I have one specific memory. I have many amazing, memories. So I can't, I can't, like, take only one apart. I have many, many for sure. 

Léa: What’s your worst memory?

Laura: Oh, the worst is, that's, that's always the one we remember, you know, the worst memory. I think the worst memory was, I can't remember which country, maybe Azerbaijan, in Baku, we were performing and the music went wrong and it started to accelerate whilst we were performing. So the whole [00:10:00] first part was, quite vague, but slow, but something was wrong and we were looking at each other on stage. We couldn't communicate, except at looking at each other and I remember at some point the dancers, were leaving the stage. And I was starting the second part with a solo, knowing that something was wrong but I couldn't say what exactly, you know, and, and the solo started and it was accelerated, accelerated and I had to deal with it. And you know, everything goes so fast in your head at the moment. You're like, do I have to stick to the music or do I have to stick to the movement? You have so many thoughts, [00:11:00] and you, you have to deal with it. So I think. I, yeah, I tried to stick to the music and my colleagues were trying to fix out like what's going on, backstage, and, and yeah, they fixed the music, but, but the whole solo was accelerated and for the next 10 minutes, the piece was, was quite faster actually.
So now it's a funny memory, but. Yeah. when it happened, it wasn't funny at all. 

Léa: So you just went super fast. 

Laura: Super fast. Super fast. And it was actually on, the music is Neil, Neil's From, and, and it goes actually quite fast. I think the, the, this moment is called Hammer. The tune is called Hammer and it goes like tututututututututututu and you just have to, yeah, deal [00:12:00] with it. And it's crazy. But we managed something like a version, a fast version of the piece. 

Léa: So a faux pas is a socially embarrassing action or mistake. What would be your definition of failure? 

Laura: Failure, I think it would be when I'm not sure of what I'm doing or when I don't know where I'm going. And that's, for me, that would be a faux pas. The thing as a performer is the communication, the dialogue you have with a choreographer is quite, open, I feel, in 2023 and today. And, [00:13:00] and yeah, I'm not sure. You can’t go to a faux pas if you have this, this dialogue with the person you need to trust in a, in a creative process, you know. If you talk about things and, and if you stay open minded, I can feel like even if we never know in a creative process, the direction we take, you know, we never know until we took it. I feel like a faux pas will be not knowing, like blurring situation. 

Léa: Do you think your, this definition has changed for you over time? 

Laura: No, I don't think so. I think it's been quite clear when I started performing that when things weren't [00:14:00] clear, that will be going into a faux pas, it's been quite clear from the beginning and it's still. It's still very much clear for me even now that I'm creating my own stuff, choreographing my own stuff, I know if I don't know exactly where I'm going, and I can't, I can't communicate clearly that with my students, I know it will be a faux pas, clearly.
So, and sometimes it's fine, like, telling them, you know, I have to try something. I don't know where I'm going, but I have to try it with you. And sometimes like five minutes later, I'm like, actually, no, that's, that's completely wrong. Sorry and thank you actually for trying. yeah. 

Léa: What is your definition of success [00:15:00] and has it changed with time?

Laura: Success for me would be, feeling okay, feeling secure and also supported. I can feel like when I’m going somewhere with an idea and I can feel my students, if they are connected to my work, if they respond to my work, I know that will be a massive success. What the audience will think, I don't really care, in my work, I care more about the exchange I have with the people, being part of this creating process with me.
As soon as they are on board, [00:16:00] I know it'll be that, that I can call a success. 

Léa: And has this definition changed over time? When you started your career, did you have like another definition or idea of what success might be, might feel like, might look like? 

Laura: I’m not sure it's a question I ask myself often. Probably when I was a student, it was different. The success was maybe a standing ovation or I don't know. I feel like with maturity, and age and time, don't really care anymore about success, you know? Yeah. So I don't ask myself often that, but I think, I think a success would be, yeah, I, at the moment it's having the people I'm [00:17:00] working with on board with me and that we are all connected together.


Léa: Any massive creative or artistic fuck up, something you made, a project you were a part of, a task you responded to, something that just did not go right. Do you have a memory of that? 

Laura: Yeah, I don't know if I can talk about it. 

Léa: You don't have to give names! 

Laura: Yeah, maybe I don't give the name, but my experience of, of, of…That, yeah, a massive failure and fuck up was, when this choreographer arrived in the room and she was, coming to dance with us, so the whole Candoco dance [00:18:00] company, it’s actually a rep company, so the artistic directors are inviting the choreographers to work with the dancers. And, I remember the choreographer, the first day arriving in the room, went like, ‘Okay, now, so we're gonna start with, so you're gonna go one by one and show me what you can do.’ And the feeling of like, auditioning for someone I didn't choose to audition, felt absolutely terrible and I remember I wasn't the only one feeling that way. All of us were like actually looking at each other and we're like, is this happening? Seriously? Are we auditioning for a company we are already working for like four or five years? , [00:19:00] yeah. So. That felt actually a bit, a bit weird. And, yeah, the whole, the whole situation felt weird. And even the making process was, wasn't great until, until we had to perform the piece.
Yeah. I think the choreographer was taking decisions and some, yeah, direction, artistic directions without communicating with us. So, yeah, it's been a real fuck up and I think it lasted probably a good two months, so it's been heavy, yeah, and, and hard to, to keep going and yeah, and to be also convinced about what we were doing. That was hard. [00:20:00] 

Léa: What did you learn out of it? 

Laura: What did I learn? Everything is possible, sadly. Yeah. Yeah. From this experience, I think I learned that everything is possible for sure. But, also I learned from that moment, I think I decided to only work with the people I wanted to work for.
And, and yeah, I'm not a student anymore. And, you know, I think when you can actually choose, your project, I would very much prefer choosing, choosing my own project, even if I don't have to work in dance for a few months, I'm not scared of that, but from that moment, from this terrible experience, I [00:21:00] learned that, I would only choose the people I work with. I had this good feeling and these good things, and I wanted to work with, and never work anymore with people I didn't work with. I don't want to work with, you know, like learning to say no. That's fine. Yeah. Big, big, big lesson. 

Léa: Figuratively and concretely, any faux pas on stage as a dancer or as, or even as a maker, like, you know, something you made and you hated? 

Laura: Yeah, I think I make some mini faux pas every time I perform but the thing I learned is actually making [00:22:00] something from this faux pas, and sometimes they are quite interesting, they are part of it, they are part of what you are dealing with at the moment, like a massive, massive faux pas, no, I don't think I made one, but, a piece with text and you know, you're blanking and you have to improvise and the same with movement sometimes when the work is still very fresh in your body, but yeah, quickly you make something from this faux pas and actually they are quite interesting and they can become very much, yeah, they can become part of it, you know, part of like dealing with, with the [00:23:00] performance is what I love actually in the job, when I, when I'm performing is, is actually dealing with the present. It's now on, it's happening now, it, the past is a past and the future is a future. But, yeah, I love like being live, you know.

Léa: What’s the worst thing someone's ever said to you about your work as a performer, as a choreographer, what's the worst? It could be when you were training, it could be when you were dancing.

Laura: When I was training, that I would never be a dancer. so yeah, a dance teacher used to not say it directly, you know, but saying it politely. That I will never [00:24:00] become a dancer, because of this, disability I have, or maybe I'm even not calling it disability, but it's different. I have this different body. I have that, aesthetically, I will not be a dancer. She, she said, ‘you know, when, when people will have the choice of like having 200 people and, with two arms and two legs, well, why would they choose you?’ And I was like, ‘of course, why, but why not? Maybe because I have something unique I can offer like everyone, I think. Each dancer has his own identities, own identity and the choreographers have to, to look at that, you know, look [00:25:00] at, the people for what they are and what they have to offer. And I think a different body actually can offer different things, different ways to move.
Yeah. So, you know, so I think, yeah, speaking about faux pas earlier, I think, you know, it's very close, but you can make something out of it. 

Léa: Did you manage to say something to that teacher when they said that to you? 

Laura: Not at the moment, but later, yes, later, when I came back to the Conservatoire, I printed out some pictures of me performing for Candoco and said ‘Hey, that's what I became now. That's what I am now, you know, look at it.’ [00:26:00] And, yeah, I think. She apologized, actually. She felt very embarrassed.

Léa: What’s the best thing someone's ever said to you about your work? 

Laura: The best thing? I think we don't say it often, you know. We say all the, about the, yeah, the faux pas, the bad things. I think the great things was like having good feedbacks, you know, after a performance. I mean, yeah, having the maker, the creator coming and say very good show or you got it. I remember when I performed, ‘Set and Reset’, the release technique took me a while [00:27:00] to approach and to understand, you know, and as soon I was getting there, I remember the maker coming and saying ‘you got there, you, you there, you know, or you're nearly there.’ Oh yeah, that, that was amazing feedbacks, like getting the work, you know, as the sense of it, the whole thing that I think are amazing feedbacks for me.

Léa: What is, or do you have, and if you do, what is it, the most inspiring quote or advice you keep close to your heart? And that might help you keep going.

Laura: I think like a kind of a quote is that, [00:28:00] I remember myself like: ‘I’m allowed and I have to take pleasure’, you know, like, during my studies I have lost a bit, a sense of pleasure and I wanted to make things, right. And, and, and, and progress and, but actually taking pleasure is, is the thing I remind myself like you do this job because you love it and don't forget actually to take pleasure.
That's the first thing. And also the second thing, is playfulness very much. And, and also I think I'm just fine with like, [00:29:00] I don't want to grow up. I want to stay a child for the rest of my life because. I think they understand everything, like, children know, they know everything, and I want to keep, yeah, being playful and spontaneous, and it's fine to sometimes don't be a grown up, I think it's okay to, yeah, to keep that in mind somehow.

Léa: Is it something like pleasure and playfulness, is that something you transmit to your students today? 

Laura: Yes, yeah, very much. The first thing, every time they go on stage, I remind them that it's okay to make mistakes and mistakes will probably happen. Make something out of it. Embrace the [00:30:00] moment because it goes very fast and, and fuck it and take pleasure.
Yeah, especially take pleasure, you know, have fun. Have fun on stage. yeah, I remind them to don't always look for doing the right thing or, but, but first take pleasure and your body knows. Trust your body. 

Léa: Yeah. I feel you've already answered that question, but I'm still going to ask in case there are things you want to add. But what would you say your biggest learning experience as an artist has been? And I'm aware that, you know, we keep learning every day. And if we talk again in 10 years, your answers will be different. But as of today, what would you say it is? [00:31:00]

Laura: I think it's been communicating with people and, sharing, sharing things and, and respecting the people you work with and, and acknowledging them. But I think it's very much sharing and researching together. even if we don't know where we are going, like the whole time. I think the thing I learned very much is, is that, is, is, yeah, sharing a whole space together, movement together. Questioning that, the biggest thing I think I've [00:32:00] learned.
And I'm still learning very much and I know there is very much more to learn. But yeah, it is not the end, and I think that's what excites me every day, at doing this job is that there is research to, to make, and we can go deeper and deeper and deeper. And there is still much more work to make. 

Léa: You mentioned you wanted to chat about different bodies.

Laura: Yeah. 

Léa: What was your experience, you know, in your professional life, in your teaching life? How do you embrace differences and how do you empower people around you to embrace differences? 

Laura: I think I'm offering, when I'm [00:33:00] teaching, I'm trying to offer a lot of space for my students to, to feel okay as they are. Like a safe space and express themselves and also I remind them, like, yeah, every week that they are unique and they can love themselves the way they are because they are unique and they are beautiful this way and, and yeah, and, and I'm trying to just accept, make them accept who they are and, and really embrace who they are.
And don't try to pretend or to, to be someone else or to become one else, like just [00:34:00] be yourself and embrace that. 

Léa: Thank you. Nice. Is there anything you want to add? 

Laura: I don't think so. No. 

Léa: Shall we move on to the quickfire questions? 

Laura: Ouais. Okay. 

Léa: I still haven't changed them. I haven't had time, but I will. It's very binary now. It's two questions like this or that, but I need to add a third one, and I will. But for now, you have the, you have the binary version of it. So I'm going to say, you know, for example, red or blue, and you need to sort of like quickly reply. So try not to think too much. 

Laura: Okay, I'm very bad at that but let's see. 

Léa: Process or product? 

Laura: Process. 

Léa: Instinct or intuition? 

Laura: Instinct. [00:35:00] 

Léa: Reflection or impulsion? 

Laura: Impulsion. 

Léa: Success or failure? 

Laura: Failure. 

Léa: Stage or site specific?

Laura: Stage. 

Léa: Pilates or yoga? 

Laura: Pilates. 

Léa: When creating, music on or off? 

Laura: On. 

Léa: If you weren't an artist, what job would you do?

Laura: I would be homeless. I don't know if it's a job. I have absolutely no idea. 

Léa: Step on the right or step on the left? 

Laura: On the left. 

Léa: The right step or a mistake? 

Laura: Mistake. 

Léa: Nice! Thank you! If you're okay, we can move on to the milky boobs on the 
[00:36:00] dance floor of our conversation. So tell me about your family. How old is 
your kid and what year? 

Laura: She was born. so now Olivia is about, so my daughter is about 13 months, so she's from, September, 2022, beginning of September. Yeah, and I think that's it about her. 

Léa: What, what do you think was, or was, or is the biggest difficulty for you to be a parent and an artist?

Laura: I think what is difficult is... that my husband is also an artist. So both of us have to deal, with, with the same situations, which is, [00:37:00] I think the travel, traveling moments and, having to be away from, from the family for a while is, is quite a massive deal because when you live as an artist to make your job, you also live as a mom, leaving her family on the side.
And that's, that's also a lot, yeah, to deal with, I think. 

Léa: So how do you organize yourself as a family then to keep working?

Laura: Sometimes I have to refuse some contracts because I know it's gonna be, too difficult, for us as a family to manage. And sometimes when I accept things, it's, it has to be short, [00:38:00] short contracts, also, yeah, for sure I'm, I'm missing my, my family whilst I'm away, but that’s a small thing compared to the whole organisation of a family there is behind. The nursery and, and yeah, so you have to, to deal with, with all of that and not being worried also when you're away, once you're away, if your kid is like a bit weak or yeah, that's, yeah.

Léa: In the professional world and like at the institutions or artists you work with, did you get some help and support? Some support or help from institutions, maybe you were rehearsing at or [00:39:00] artists you were working with. 

Laura: No, no, no, no, no, because I'm, I'm self employed, so no support. I had to work until I was, pregnant of almost seven months, even if, the midwife that was looking after me wanted me to like, stop dancing a bit, a bit earlier. I just, I just couldn't. So I had to carry on and, but I did a bit less. I trusted my students, they were fine, but no, I didn't have any, any help except, from my husband. He didn't have any help. 

Léa: How do you think the residency or creation model we're currently living with, working with should be rethought for parents?Do you have any ideas? 

Laura: [00:40:00] Yeah, I think that that would be great if we could, when we are away, having someone looking after our family, that would be a dream, dream becoming true. Like taking our kids with us on tour and maybe having someone looking after all the kids, like a nanny, that would be amazing.
And also, I mean, I even didn't think of like breastfeeding because because of the time and, and, and all of that, I knew I will not have it, but also maybe having, a specific, like kind of a schedule for, so the breastfeeding will be amazing, with like little breaks and [00:41:00] that will be nice.

Léa: Because you mentioned breastfeeding, like, how was it for you to get back into shape? Maybe it's not the right way to say it, but you know, this postpartum body and you going back to work after a certain time, how did you feel in your body? What did you put in place for you to feel like you could move again?

Laura: Well, I think I'm still recovering after 13 months, yeah. I actually had some pain still a few weeks ago and I had to see my midwife again and apparently it's linked to the C-section I had. There is still some tissues that aren't fine and my abs aren't back. They are still a bit floppy to be honest, but also because I didn't have time to take care of [00:42:00] myself. I didn't do it. So, you know, it's, yeah, I have been back to teaching again and to dancing, but I didn't take care of myself yet. And I think that the plan I have this year is to actually take care of myself because I'm still young and I want to dance and I still want another kid. So I, yeah, I have to take care of myself.
It's quite important also for myself, but also for my family. You know? 

Léa: What would you say to young dancers who might consider having a family but might be afraid of, you know, sometimes you think, oh, you can't work as an artist and have a family. It's just not possible. You have to choose. What would you say to these people?

Laura: I would say that doing both is absolutely possible. And you feel that you want both, [00:43:00], do it. but I would say also speak to people you work with, speak to friends, speak to, colleagues, because more you speak out of like your experiences, your different experiences and, and more you actually, discover that other people are sharing the same things as you or same thought or same situations.
And I feel like women, the more we speak about it, the more we'll know about it and more we'll find solutions together probably.

Léa: Do you feel, do you feel you're a different artist today because of motherhood? 

Laura: Yeah, yeah, and I think, yeah, I love that. I think the maturity is [00:44:00] very much different and, priorities you take and, happiness of working, when you're passionate, when you love your job and going back at home is like your passion is just keeping going. It's, it's absolutely amazing. So I feel like now I have two passions. I have one for sure. I had 10 so far, but now I have, I have my family as well. That became my second passion. And that also can be, inspiring, Like regenerating. It's, it's so important. 

Léa: Yeah. Nice. Beautiful. Thank you. Do you wanna, is there something you wanna, you know, add?

Laura: No, I think, I think that's, that's, that's [00:45:00] , the whole thing. 

Léa: Yeah, pretty much. I think it's beautiful to finish with the, this idea of like a second passion. Thank you so much, Laura, for sharing all this and, and yeah, for being honest and for just, yeah, telling all these stories. We traveled with you to Mexico and we felt the accelerated solo with you.
We're going to say a fake goodbye now. And, I'll say goodbye to you personally once I stopped this recording. But thank you very much. 

Laura: Thank you, Lea. Thank you for your time. [00:46:00] Always a pleasure! 

Music

(Faux pas bonus) 

Léa: That's it. Oh yeah, that's good. It's coming back, isn't it? 

Laura: Yeah, yeah, I think so. 

Léa: Okay, great. When creating, music on or off? Oh, hi Olivia! Hi, my big girl! Did I see you, baby? Or did I only see pictures? It's funny, I feel like I've already met you, but I'm not sure, actually. I'm not sure?
Laura: I'm going to try to get into a room. We're going to go upstairs. Yes, yes, yes.
That way we'll understand each other better. Because outside, sometimes, it cuts a bit. It worked well until now. Yes, it's true. It's done.[00:47:00]