The Art of Faux Pas #1 - Sung-im Her

SUNG-IM HER. Sung-im is a South-Korean dance artist based in London, she danced with Jan Fabre, Les Ballets C de la B and NeedCompany amongst others. Her work has been touring internationally and she was an Aerowaves artist in 2021. 
She’s radiant, her energy is joyfully contagious… I hope you’ll enjoy the chat as much as I did!! 

Transcript

SUNG-IM HER #1 

Léa: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Art of Faux Pas. Here, we celebrate the artistic fuck ups, the feelings of failure, the blackouts, the falls, the unfollowed rules, the invaluable learning experiences within the creative practice. All this with kindness, amusement, and respect. Today, we're chatting with Sung-im Her.
Sung-im is a South-Korean dance artist based in London, she danced with Jan Fabre, Les Ballets C de la B and NeedCompany amongst others. Her work has been touring internationally and she was an Aerowaves artist in 2021.
She’s radiant, her energy is joyfully contagious… I hope you’ll enjoy the chat as much as I did!

Hi Sung-im, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really, really excited about our conversation to come. 

Sung-im: Thank you, thank you. 

Léa: Can you share with us your name, your age and what you do? 

Sung-im: So my name is Sung Im Har and I am a dance artist. So, uh, I do choreograph, uh, I dance. Mainly in my show nowadays, but I still work for a Belgian company called NeedCompany.
Um, and do a lot of movement direction as well as teaching. I'm from South Korea, uh, based in London since seven years and before I worked a lot in Belgium as well. 

Léa: What's your first memory of dance? 

Sung-im: So I start dance very late, when I was 19 Korean age, so that's, is it 17 European age? I know the difference, huh? But, um, um, so [00:02:00] I always wanted to dance somehow. Uh, but I was, um, not possible to dance in that time when I was in Korea because I was too fat. They would say. They said that to you? They said to me, you're too fat. Uh, you don't have long limbs. Unfortunately, I don't have. So my arms and legs are too short. So you have the worst case scenario to be a dancer.
So you can't be a dancer. And from my family side, I have three older sisters and they were all doing art. First sister was doing a piano clarinet. Second sister was doing painting. Third sister was also doing painting. And in Korea, it cost a lot of money to be an artist. So my parents were like, we have no money.
You can't. And then I think I, I became the last year of a high school student and I watched the TV [00:03:00] and they were showing some kind of about the dance department, um, uh, exam and they were all wearing a black railtard with, uh, you know, how do you say this? Like a ballerina hair. Where do you have like all hair up?
And they looked like an aunt to me. They absolutely looked like aunt and I was so fascinated. And I went to, um, toilet and I was copying their movements. Uh, yeah, and then I realized in my high school there was dance department. Uh, and I, every day I went downstairs to see their exercise through the... gap of the door or going around, around the dance studio through the, through the window to peep at what, what they are doing.
That was my first memory of dance. 

Léa: So did you then understand that you could make a career in dance? 

Sung-im: I had absolutely no idea. I had absolutely [00:04:00] no, uh, uh, understanding or desire to be, and then I said like, okay, I want to dance. I have, that's the end of the sentence. I didn't want to be like, I want to be a dancer.
So therefore I want to be a choreographer. I want to be, uh, something else I want to dance. And that was points. And that was it. 

Léa: Hmm. So when did you start your, your training? 

Sung-im: So then I was crying. I start to cry, uh, because I normally really didn't cry. I don't, I didn't, I don't think I show crying to in front of my parents and I just non stop crying. And they were like, Oh, what happened? What's happening? Uh, I want to dance and that's all I want, what I want to do. Uh, therefore my mom brought me to the dance department in, in, uh, in the Gyeonggi, Gyeonggi high school. And then the dance teacher showed, showed me and she said, okay. Now you're going to lose [00:05:00] 20 kilograms and we're going to split your leg every day, which is going to be very painful, but we're going to do that.
So it was, I mean, yeah, you know, my age, so it was very hardcore. They don't do it now. I mean, it's going to be a big problem, but my time, my time, we did that. And then I said, okay. I'm going to lose 20 kilograms in one month and I, I did, I did, it's not healthy, it's not recommended. No, yeah, don't do that. I'm not going to anybody.
But I ate very little, but tried to be very balanced with the rice and vegetables, but very little. I did a lot of exercise, of course, which is like to being a dancer. We, I had a, uh, all at once, a lot of exercise, uh, and then split, um, every day. So I have kind of toned all of my, uh, small, uh, brain . [00:06:00] The say, the, the vein. Vein, oh yeah, the vein. It was all blue inside of my thigh. Uh, yes, uh, that's how I started. And then seven months of very, very hardcore, I got into the university, because if you want to dance, you need to go to university in Korea. Uh, uh, for the, yeah, first, first, uh, I got the first prize. So I was four years of, uh, having a scholarship in the university.

Léa: Amazing.

Sung-im: This was the story. Yeah. 
Léa: Amazing. And, um, then who did you work with? Like, what happened? How did your professional career start? 

Sung-im: So, so I wanted to dance. My desire was so big. So I wanted to dance. I wanted to taste everything. Taste this, taste that. But that time, now it's different again. That time, I graduated Hansung University. And then I could only work with [00:07:00] Hansung University, um, choreographer. Wow. It doesn't matter if it's your taste or not your taste. For how long? Like, did you have like a... Forever. It's forever. So I was not able to do that because I was so curious for Odan. So I, and then I went to, um, so I did the MA as well in Korea, the same university, but then I went to, uh, Vienna Festival in 2000. And I was completely blown away. Wow. This is contemporary dance. This is, this is what I need to do. So I went to a part in 2004 and then, uh, I studied two years in choreographic, uh, course, and then I start working with young father, uh, and then, uh, level, I said, I love it. And then Needcompany in Belgium. 

Léa: Have you, have you understood why dance? Why did you [00:08:00] decide to pursue a career in dance? 

Sung-im: I actually don't know. I didn't even have a chance to think about why dance.
I think now I, so to be honest, now I think more, more about why dance. And I think it's, it's a lot to do with the freedom, the freedom of body, the freedom of to be what you want to say. In non, um, direct way, non verbal way, you can express what you want to express. You want, you can express what, what you feel at the moment.
And I think that freedom, what I have is so powerful. And that's why I think that I, I do what I do. 

Léa: So you worked with like this amazing companies and then you also make your, your own work. Do you recall your best memory on stage? as a dancer, but also your best memory on stage or your best memory as a witness of your own work? [00:09:00] 
Sung-im: I think the first one is easier. The first job what I had, although now Jan Fabre has a lot of controversial issues, I had a solo work with Jan Fabre where I had to be completely naked. and swimming in olive oil. That was my first work in Europe. Um, so I did the audition. So if I, if I may talk about the audition first, um, it was all Flemish and I don't speak any Flemish. And it was clearly saying we are looking for Italian dancer. And I was already in that time did like hundreds. The auditions in Europe. I reached that theater in Germany and France and Spain, Portugal, everywhere I went. I was not succeeded any auditions. So I was like about to, okay, now I think it's the end of my career.[00:10:00] And, and, and then, okay, this, this, I see nothing about it, but I know Jan Fabre is quite well known person. Uh, so, okay, this is my last audition. So I had no fear. I had no fear. I had no anxiety. I had like no, I have to be my best or something. I was truly, truly enjoyed the audition. I went there. Of course, it was all Italian because they announced they're looking for Italian dancer.
And me, Korean, went there. And then they were like, okay, uh, okay, everybody doing this, uh, be a man, be a woman. Okay, one on one, go on the stage, speak Italian. And I was like, Um, carbonara, spaghetti, carbonara, mozzarella, mozzarella, and then I think I was like very brave because I knew I'm not going to get it and I think that kind of [00:11:00] So they really liked me. And then the next audition was like, we have to be fully naked, but which I came from, like, really from Korean education. So I would never be naked in front of anybody on the stage that time.
Uh, and then we had to slide, glide into olive oil where it's. It's like there's no grip, that you just like a bambi, you just fall, and then you have to be going faster, faster, faster, faster, faster, until you like have non stop, no control over anything. Um, I think that was my best memory about, um, about dancing on the stage.
To the, the, yeah, the, the freedom, the, the... It was everything. It was the smell, it was visual, it was the music, but the smell of olive oil, it was like full in the space. And I think that's the strongest memory.

Léa: And as a witness of your own [00:12:00] work, because you make your own work, you're a choreographer as well. Do you have like a best memory of seeing one of your work? But you're in it as well, right? You dance in it as well. 

Sung-im: Most of the time, I'm in it. And so the last creation, I have worked with the Korean National Dance Company. And I just told you, my father just a month ago passed, not even months ago, like two, three weeks ago passed away.
And I have made a show about death, about life and death, where we are resilient, we fall, and we get up. And I'm pretty harsh. So I have asked dancers, fall and get up. The whole show, it was 35 minutes. They fall and get up. They are 20s and they are dying! And I watch it and I'm like... But I'm like, at the same [00:13:00] time, like, Oh, it's so, I'm so bad.
I'm so grateful they are there. They are really going with my, uh, it's kind of for me to say goodbye to my dad and, and, and preparation of the journey to letting go. And then when I saw that show. on the sides, not on the audience place. And then I'm there fully with my mind and body. And then when everything falls away and they can't get up anymore physically, that the leftover of their body is just sometimes so emotional, so touching, so, um, so real.
Yeah. 

Léa: Did they know? Did they know your personal experience? 

Sung-im: Yes. So in the funeral of my dad, everybody was there. 

Léa: Oh, they all came? Wow. That's a beautiful support. 

Sung-im: It was a very beautiful support. Yes. [00:14:00] I have good colleagues. 

Léa: Yeah. Yeah. And also, I guess you, I guess because you provided them with like an amazing, safe experience as well, you know, I guess they, they, they're giving back as well what you gave them.
What's your worst memory on stage as a dancer, but also, you know, of your own work, either on stage with your own work or with missing it? 

Sung-im: I think it's, it's the, when I start doubting. It's, it's, it's And the, the, so now I know a little bit more, but when I was young, I did not think of, I did not think about the day after.
So I have three performances. You need to know how to manage your energy level now, but then I did not know. So I gave 130 in day one. Yeah. So ...

Léa: by day three, you have nothing left. 

Sung-im: Especially day two is the problem. Day two, [00:15:00] I have 20 and I need to survive. And there's nothing coming out from my, my mental, my, my physic, when there's nothing to coming out.
And you just need to deal with it. I mean, you have to be, you can't fake it. That's what it is. You have to deal with it. But on top of that, if you start doubting, that's the, that's the worst. And I think I had it a lot when I was a little bit younger. 

Léa: Did someone ever ever got you to doubt? Like, did someone, not the good doubt, not the one that makes you move forward, but did someone ever, um, almost make you feel like you were a fraud?

Sung-im: No, but I, no, to be honest, I absolutely hate to get any feedback, even if it's good. Because if it's good feedback before the show, then I have a feeling that I want to achieve again. So I forget about other opportunities and I [00:16:00] think about that. I need to re make that choice automatically, or if it's bad, then you are either angry.
Jan Fabre used that a lot, uh, for example, to make you very angry, to tick you, flip you, to have another extra, um, impulse, emotional impulse to come. But I, it worked, it worked when I worked with Jan Fabre. To be honest, it worked. But when, when, when you work by yourself or when you work with somebody else, you start to be completely lost.
Uh, and then when you get to start to getting feedbacks, just before the show, it gets, that's for me, really like. Yeah. Even if it's good feedback. Yeah. 

Léa: Well, I'll jump to the, to the feedback, uh, the feedback part of, of, of my questions. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. What, so, because you create, so I guess I'm also asking this to you as a creator, what's the worst thing someone's ever said [00:17:00] to you about your work?

Sung-im: About my work? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Do my, Hmm. I would...

Léa: not necessarily to your face. No. It could be a tweet? It can be an article, it can be, you know.

Sung-im: I think the first work I made, that was like right after university, 1999.
I made a solo work, no, I made a duet work. And I did not know what I was, I did not know what's the making of the process. Probably I was, so I have some ideas and just putting, trying my best to making something most interesting and it was [00:18:00] not interesting. And I think it was quite a big stage with quite, like a lot of people came.
And I think the one of the critiques that about. Oh, she has no idea what is the choreography and she should not make her work. Uh, and then I was too young and I was too vulnerable. I really did not make work for a couple of years. It was so hurtful because I was, I don't think I was ready to, to receive this much harsh, uh, critique.
To be honest, I start really making my work around 40, age 40. I didn't, I was not so much into making my own work, but now I really enjoy it. So you can't really. Yeah, no, when you are ready to make your own work, it's, it's not like there is a route that, ah, you graduate this, therefore you, now you start to make your own work and, you know, [00:19:00] everybody's different and there was a, mm.
Yeah, 

Léa: Totally. Do you remember the best thing someone's ever said to you? 

Sung-im: Uh, I think, I think, um, I think overall my work has been always positive. That's great! It's, it's great because I, I really try to go. The edge, or like really uncomfortable form, but my aim, as I said, is, is, as a dancer, it's about freedom.
But overall, I really like to bring positive energy on stage, where, because the world is so hard, we are living in really harsh world. I mean, it's never, not just now, but I think everybody struggles. Even if it's a struggle, I think the reason why people, for me, why people comes to the theatre to experience their life is to get any hope.[00:20:00] 
Um, and I think it's very nice feeling to share. Um, and therefore I always end, end to creating something very hopeful or, or positive performance. Uh, and then the, the reaction is mainly very positive, I believe. Right. I believe. You never know. 
 

Léa: You never know, but it's nice if you, if you receive positive energies.
So I'm really interested in failure or the feelings of failure. Um, what's your definition of failure?

Sung-im: I think that's what you give to yourself. If you think I've failed in this, as a dancer, or as a life, as a, as a, as a mother, and I think that's, then you are ... Close to be a fail. Um, we are all fail so many [00:21:00] times. It's not uh, uh, black or white. I think life of all in generous and in general, I think you decide if you are a failure. Don't give other people a chance to talk that you are a failure or not failure.
It's the same for your performance. It's sometimes you have to be very careful who to choose to give you to come and give a feedback because sometimes that can be also Uh, negative effects. Um, and I, I talk to when I give a mentor to people, I say, just think very carefully. If this you get this comment from your colleague, is this worth it?
Absolutely. I know it's harsh. It's harsh, but you have to think, is this thinking more valuable than what you think? If you think so, then follow, but if it's not, then don't follow. Um, and if you think you are successful. [00:22:00] You, you succeed what you want to succeed and then I think you are, you're not failure.
But to be honest, as a dancer, I failed a lot.
Say this. Because I failed more than 100 auditions. In every, every, I went every audition. Between 2000, uh, and 2006. And I failed. All. 

Léa: And you kept going. 

Sung-im: And I kept going. I kept going. Um, yeah, I, I failed all, all except the parts audition where I, I entered and during the parts, whenever there's audition, I win everywhere corner of the, of the Europe.
And I think probably the, the, the most important part of, of why I was failing : I did not know who I was. I [00:23:00] think that was the first thing. I didn't have any confidence. I knew I was a good dancer. And I wanted to show it. To prove I was a good dancer. Which means I was quite empty inside, probably. And I think that doesn't work.
It didn't work, somehow. And I'm, to be honest, now I can say it, but I'm very happy I failed all of this. Audition that time it was so painful. Each time I cry or I hide it to my husband now . Then I was hiding him to go into the audition because I was, I knew I'm gonna fail. I was so shameful. Okay. Yeah. And then I tell, I tell him, oh, where are you?
I'm in Ghent, I'm doing audition, but I didn't tell you, uh, because, uh, I knew I'm gonna fail, but I have no money. Can you send yourself Yeah. So I can't come back to Belgium. Can you send me some money? No, the story behind was amazing, but a lot. [00:24:00] Um, and I was so shameful about it. But now when I think about it, that made me.
Uh, very, very strong person, strong, uh, uh, to be, I think to be shining on the stage, it's not only because you are a good dancer, but also the inside that you know who you are, that kind of shines you through, through who you are, that also coming as a person. Um, so yeah, yeah. 

Léa: Yeah, absolutely. What's, what's your definition of success?
I would, I always want to ask what's your definition of success today and has it changed over time? 

Sung-im: There is a lot of things I still need to do, I want to do. My definition of success is my happiness. I might be a very simple person. That's what it is. 

Léa: I feel it's like the base, really. It's the essence of everything.
Happiness. 

Sung-im: But I think that's the [00:25:00] happiness. If I'm happy today. That's what it is. I don't care about tomorrow so much. I don't, I don't have that brain to think about my future. I don't have a brain to, to plan things. I can't physically plan anything. I'm a very improvised person. Um, and it's, am I happy today?
Yes. And then I think that's, that's good enough for me. I don't need more. 

Léa: Um, any massive creative or artistic fuck up or faux pas that you encountered or made like, uh, something you made you're not happy about now, when you look at it, when you look back at it, a project you were part of, a task you responded to, anything creatively, artistically, you completely messed up?

Sung-im: Completely messed up. Um, I worked with one choreographer in the [00:26:00] UK. As a dancer, and that was really not a good experience. To be UK.
And it was very clear that that choreographer was making her own work to be a main character in her own show. So she was very hungry to be Shine on the stage, but she know, she knew that she can't be Shine in any other production. So she made it her own work and then I was there to support her. Uh, wasting my time and, and being, and, and everything, and I was like, okay, this is it.
I don't want to, uh, uh, work for anybody else. And then I, I start to making my own work. That's the one [00:27:00] thing, my creation to go completely wrong. I, um, It might be a bit apologetic, but I, I have made, I worked with the UK dancers and, and then that time I had to present something in Korea and Korea was not open for LGBTQs.
I mean, now still it's very much on the ground. Um, but then in 2019, it wasn't. even much more on the ground. It was like, people don't talk about it and if there's a queer festival, people throw things because it's a very religious country. It is very much, uh, Catholic and Christian. Uh, and then they, they think it's a sin.
So then I wanted to bring something, uh, To a very soft way, but in a very abstract way to show it's not binary, it's, it's, it's not this or that, we [00:28:00] can be, and I worked with, uh, uh, UK dancers, uh, at that time, I didn't have a Twitter account. Even myself, who worked, who lived in Europe much, and then I said, okay, I'm gonna bring non binary world to Korea and I was not prepared.
I did not know. I, I had so little understanding. And that was, Pretty, pretty difficult, pretty painful experience. And then those experience, the worst thing, for me, is not having only the bad work on the stage, but the worst part is you don't see them anymore. So you don't work with that connect, so you lose your friends.
And that was the worst part of it.

Léa: In French, faux pas means wrong steps. Also, anything that [00:29:00] went wrong for you on stage, either in one of your pieces or in one of the works you performed, like a mistake, a blackout, a wrong step, basically. Do you have a memory of that? 
Sung-im: You know? Um, can I, can I make something? It was wrong step, but it came out really good. Can I talk about that? 

Léa: Of course. That's the whole point. It's the whole point. 

Sung-im: So, okay. Um. Uhhhhhh! So, for the work that I just talked about, there, it's all about the counts. So, one, two, two, two, I'm a bit obsessed with the count.
And you start to hear in between the beats, and everything starts to collapse. For me, in that small second, oh my [00:30:00] god, and you are not, you have to be synchronized in your mind, and you are not synchronized. Because you are listening to the in between beats and that's the worst nightmare for me. For me, it's a nightmare and that happened and then you come out of the stage, you cry, you cry and then you look at the video later.
Ah, that was not so bad.
That was it. And then the other part, other time. We start the show, and one of the dancers did not know we started. So she was doing, we're on the stage. But the cue was when the audience light off. And then the light is on. And it just doesn't start. She doesn't start because she doesn't know we haven't start the show.
And then I have to just walk very casually. We haven't started. We haven't started.[00:31:00] 
And she was like,
those kind of things are funny. And that time is just so, uh, you know, like you feel like a end of life. Yeah. But then later you see the video, you're pretty nice. And then the best, uh, one of the best experience from out of the, the worst experience, so, so that was the Enfable work. We had a show in Italy, so I went to Italy.
The stage was tilted because it's old stage. And if there's a little tilt, the olive oil doesn't stay. It all flow down like a roof. So you couldn't slide anymore. You couldn't slide, you just ended up in front of the, in front of the, um, of the stage. Uh, and [00:32:00] you have to go all the parts. So we have like the floor was completed.
Bakul we say, Bakul from here to there. You end up there and the light point there. And you go there and then you find it. But you always end in front of the stage. That was luckily, luckily that was a rehearsal. Okay, that was a rehearsal. And then, and then for the, so we were, we were saying, okay, shouldn't we cancel it?
Because this is not possible to do any of, uh, choreography. So we cancel it. Uh, and then, uh, I said, what about we have, um, we put the bar. Wooden bar here and here so I can climb, you grab it, and I push myself to go to the other end, and I push myself to go to the other end. And then we did it, and it was one of the best show we ever had.

Léa: Amazing. [00:33:00] Um, so now, according to you, what's the space for failure within the creative process when you're creating?

Sung-im: So when I create, first of all, I need a lot of time, but I don't know if it's really failing. But so 90 percent of what you have done, so I always film. And 90 percent of what you have done is all in the garbage.
And you need to allow this, even if it doesn't matter how you like it or not. Like, it's still difficult for me. But if it's from your gut, you know, is this really essential for your show? What you want to do it. And then you just need to put everything in the garbage. And sometimes it's like so much of waste of your energy, creativity, and time and effort.
But that's, that's, that's what it is. Yeah. I [00:34:00] think, for me, I, I fail a lot. I, I like to, and I'm not so afraid of failing because that's who I am, because I fail a lot and I know it. My husband knows it. I need to experience everything, experience it, and then I know it. Yeah. To, to, and I even, so one of the thing is probably I need even more time is I talk and I discuss with dancers a lot.
So when I create, the dancers propose something and we do it, and then it doesn't work. And then, okay, what do you propose? Okay, you try again. Even if it works, or even if in your mind it doesn't work, you still try. And I think, um, that's one of the most important, uh, necessary step. I don't know if it's, if it's, [00:35:00] uh, close to failing.

Léa: Yeah, I have no idea. I think the word failure might be not the right one for me. Like, cause I guess when I create, I want to try something and then we try it and it doesn't work and we just throw it away. And they're like kind of, I see them as being kind of tiny little artistic failures that are very needed.

Sung-im: Yeah. 

Léa: For for me to know. But I dunno if it's failures. I don't feel bad about them. 'cause I, I actually love the fact that it didn't work. 

Sung-im: Yes. You know, I think, I think so. So, so this is from my experience, nothing to do with the, earlier I saw the show, so the Korean Life's perfect, the perfection. So the state manager comes. Okay, we have the content. How many times do you want to close? Is it five seconds or six seconds or seven seconds? I need to know. And the light, it has to be seven seconds or eight seconds. Oh, I do not know. And I do not care. [00:36:00] And then I went to see quite important show. It was perfect. And it was. So perfect.
What, what I mean, perfect. Music was very clean. The dance was very clean, very good. You know, the Korean, they, they work a lot. They, they're very disciplined. The, the what what they deliver was so clean, so clean, and the light was perfect and the set was cut. Perfect. And then the last part, one of the, the sets was a, was like a, a paper.
And that, uh, flipped. And I love that part the most. So somebody came to me and asked, what do you think about the whole show? I said, that didn't go well with the set was the best part because then as a human, I can breathe and we as a human, non perfect person. To be, don't be afraid [00:37:00] to show that we are not perfect.
Um, yeah. And therefore, I think my, my work is quite raw as well. That I really say, don't be afraid to be make mistakes. You always make mistake. While on the stage, you have to be perfect all at once. Yeah, yeah. 

Léa: Do you have like a super inspiring quote or advice that you keep close to your heart and you keep coming back to when you need to? 

Sung-im: I think, no, I don't have it. I'm really like not a good host, I think, I can't give you all this, any, any things, but I think I really liked The idea that you are, uh, uh, bringing about the fail to being a failure, because I think it's not only being in a dance or an artist, but I think as a human being, uh, we fail all the time.
And I think we, when you, when I was, I say like now I'm. [00:38:00] 40. Mid 40. I don't want to go back to 20, because I think I was so afraid to make any mistakes. I was so anxious, and I want to make it so good, perfect, and da da da. And of course, that's why I think where I am now. But I think... I think it's, you have to give a chance to yourself to fail and sometimes even enjoy the failing.
Therefore, we are, uh, we are where we are, a bit relaxed as a human being. We are not a robot. I think that's the big difference with us and robots. 

Léa: Would you say that's your, one of your biggest learnings? As an artist? 

Sung-im: Yes, yes, yes. And I don't even try to be... I say, you, all my dancers, I always say, you need to do your hundreds. There's no [00:39:00] other... If you don't do, give your hundreds. We are doing a work of moving people. I mean, moving people's mind. It's not easy. It's not from your only brain, or it's not from your... It's hard work. And if you are there on the stage because you want to move people's mind somehow, it's, it's a hard work.
Therefore, you need to give a hundred or even more of what you have, but don't be afraid to make mistakes. Because all of my work is very neat. It's all on the counts. So when they are messed up, they are really worried about it. They have a lot of pressure but do not worry. We make mistakes and I like our making mistake.
And oh, so, so a couple of my words. Not, not my last work about my dad has been, uh, got, [00:40:00] almost clinically we are the same. They all the, the, we are like puppeteers. So all of the, the dancers look the same and therefore they're really afraid they're going to be, uh, making mistakes. But although we wearing the same uniform, we, we doing the same thing.
Your personality is all coming out throughout of this, all the same form. And making a mistake is part of it as well. Mm. 

Léa: Yep. Quickfire questions. You know this game? No. So I tell you red or blue and you have to quickly reply red or blue. Red or blue. Okay. The one, the one you like. 

Sung-im: Okay. Ready? Okay. 

Léa: Process or product?

Sung-im: Red. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. I'm just... I am genius. I said, I told you. I'm making mistake. Red.[00:41:00] 
Okay, ready. 

(laughters) 

Léa: OK, I'll go again. Process or product? 

Sung-im: Process. 

Léa: Instinct or intuition? 

Sung-im: Instinct. 

Léa: Reflection or impulsion? 

Sung-im: Impulsion. 

Léa: Success or failure? 

Sung-im: Failure. 

Léa: Stage or site specific? 

Sung-im: Stage. 

Léa: Art. Useless or useful? 

Sung-im: Useless. 

Léa: Pilates or yoga? 

Sung-im: Yoga. 

Léa: When creating, music on or off? 

Sung-im: Music on. 

Léa: If you weren't an artist, what job would you do?

Sung-im: Nothing. 

Léa: Step on the right or step on the left? 

Sung-im: Right. 

Léa: The right step or a mistake? 

Sung-im: Mistake.

Léa: Thank you! Great! Um, I think I quickly touched upon the Milky Boobs on the Dancefloor part of the podcast with [00:42:00] you. Yeah. Talking about, you know, the fact you're a mother, uh, you're an artist, you're a dancer, and how do you... Do, how do you deal with it? So we're moving on to the sport now. Um, tell me about your family, your kids, uh, how old they are.

Sung-im: I have one kid called Maru. Uh, Maru is a half Korean, half Belgian. And we're living in London. Um, so, before Marou, I was dancing in Belgium and my husband was in London. But we could commute. I mean, not commute because it was very expensive. But we could go, uh, through the tunnel, uh, Eurostar. But after having Marou, I moved to London.
So, he's the big, uh, center of my life and changed my life enormously. 

Léa: Professionally, where were you at when he was born? 

Sung-im: I was working for Needcompany in Belgium. [00:43:00] 

Léa: And, um, were they supportive of you, you giving birth to, to, to your baby? How, you know, how did they support you in your transition to motherhood, Needcompany?

Sung-im: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were, they were, they were, yeah, everybody was, uh, had, yeah. So the, the, the directors, they were a couple, so, and their children are also in the, in the, in the company, in the company. So they are very family, uh, driven. So they were very, very welcome to have many children. 

Léa: And physically, how did you feel after your baby was born? How long did it take you to go back to dancing? 

Sung-im: Tired. Very tired. No, you have like constantly you're moving, constantly working. So you feel like you have no time for yourself. or for your art, you have very limited time. I even made a performance about time in between time when we were in, in, [00:44:00] in pandemic. Everything with having a child, you need the structure, which I never had a structure.
Uh, so it was like seven o'clock, you get up. Eight o'clock you go to school, nine o'clock you do this, uh, you have written all this, you must know there. Too well. Yes, yes. I never had to do this and now your life is on clock, each minute you know what you need to do and you have to do that and that was all like kind of a new thing.

Léa: And what, what's, what would you say is the biggest difficulty for you to be a parent and an artist, a working artist? 

Sung-im: Oh, is that the, still the most struggled thing for me is a travel. Cause I used to like six months, I was traveling like all around the world and I love traveling and now anymore, not anymore.
I really don't want to [00:45:00] travel much. I like to work, but I like to work at home if it's possible. I know it's not possible for our job, but I, I like to stay in London. I like to stay where my families are. I like to be there in the evening. And I, this is a big change. So I try to be, I really try to reduce as much as possible traveling

Léa: um, And do you think the residency, like the creation model should be rethought for parents or for, you know, because I feel like somehow It's very hard to grow old as an artist if you decide to have a family because exactly what you're saying, we don't want to travel that much. And, and somehow the whole model is you create one week there, you come back home, then you create for two weeks there and you come back. Then three months later, you go back. 

Sung-im: That model doesn't work for, for, for us, isn't it? So I had, I had some interesting and, uh. There was an art [00:46:00] organization called Mother Creation, and there all artists could bring their kids.
And then there are painter, painting in the corner. So me, myself, and my friend, my colleague who has children. So we could bring our children. So they see what mom's doing, what we are doing. And then we could have a creation time. And there was also a carer person who wanted to care. So I, I could use that, uh, facility a bit bit, uh, bit while, um, couple weeks.
But even that kind of module was really helpful. And, and would, would be even better, of course, if there's more, more of those kind of Yeah. Yeah. Module. Yeah. 

Léa: Do like, have you have, you often work with, so for example, when he was little, would you take him with you to rehearsals and to residencies? And if you did, um, how were the institutions?

Sung-im: I think I [00:47:00] brought him to Korea when I had a residency in Korea when he was six months and then my husband was with me. So my husband was taking care. There was no institution in Korea. It's still pretty hard to find a kind of institute. Um, in the UK. I didn't find any institute who, who, uh, they are all welcome to bring in your child.
They, they will not support an extra for, for that. So then it's your, it's still on you. Yeah. Financially you pay. Yeah. You pay the, the, the nanny or you. You do back and forth, back and forth, yeah 

Léa: How were the experiences, did they create a little space or a little corner for you when you're, you're a child or nothing?

Sung-im: Um, the organization. 

Léa: Yeah. How welcoming were they? Like what, practically what did, what did they do to welcome you? [00:48:00] Was it just, yeah, you can come and hang around in the cafe or, okay. 

Sung-im: Yeah. More or less. Yeah. Yeah. Or they can be in the, in the dance studio as well when you're creating, but that's, Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I think when I was, um, teaching Chauvin Davis, uh, uh, independent dance, they was, they were very welcoming and they said, yeah, you can, you can bring your children or child and then they can also paint. We can give them some, uh, nice faces so they can, they can create something, but that was very nice.
But, uh, Maru was not, um, Wanted to come. Okay. 

Léa: Sorted. 

Sung-im: Sorted. Sorted. 

Léa: Anything you would want to say or share to people who might think about having a family? 

Sung-im: I think it's to, I say always to my friends, I was doubting and I, I did a very late because I, I loved my profession and I didn't want to let it go of my procession, but having a family is, has, has completely different value [00:49:00] and it's not one or the other.
I think if you're thinking about having a child, you should definitely, if you're thinking about, you know, like, oh, I don't want to lose my profession, da, da, da, da, I think it's no go to thinking about, to, to thinking about your family and your child with. It's not the same level for me. I did not know. I did not know when I didn't have a child.
But since I have a child, I can tell. The value of your family and having a child, the value of your work, it's just nuts. You can't measure it. 

Léa: How did motherhood affect your own work? 

Sung-im: I think I'm much more grounded. I think I'm much more Letting go of things which is not necessary because you have so little time.
Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So little time, so you're like, okay, is this important? No. Then why would I hanging on to it? Let go. So it's a bit more, you [00:50:00] are a bit more on ease of things. So you don't thinking about too much little things to around you. You're a bit more Yeah, totally. And I feel good about it, you know?
Like, uh, we're giving too much, uh, yeah, importance to things, to many things which is not important. And you, you kind of, okay, now my family and my child and, and this is important. So then the whole things are changing around you. And I think it's, if I didn't have this, Uh, family, I don't know. I would have been, I don't even want to think about that life.
And I, I'm, I'm, I was always having an, I always anti family. I never wanted to have children. I never wanted to have a family and look how I changed.
It's, uh, it's really put my life upside down and I think I have no [00:51:00] regret. It's, it's, uh, yeah. Great. 

Léa: Thank you so much for sharing all this with me and us. Hopefully there will be an us, but yeah, thank you so much. So you made it was so interesting, inspiring, exciting. Um, gosh, there's so, yeah, so many things 

Sung-im: So we should, we should meet, we should talk more. Thank you so much for your doing this. I mean, this is such a great idea. Uh, I hope a lot of people are inspired. I'm sure a lot of people will be inspired by this podcast. 

Léa: I hope so. And if not, it's fine, you know, uh, I'll have wonderful conversations and it's great! 
You know, I always think if you do something, if you're actively doing the thing you want to do, you can never bloody fail, you know? You can't fail. Because you've done it. 

Sung-im: And you're doing it. 

Léa: I'm doing it. Thanks to you. Also, thank you for, know, being a part [00:52:00] of it. Because I couldn't otherwise. Okay. 
 
Well, you take care. Hang on, I'm just gonna stop the, I'm gonna stop the...